Developers say they will put $200 million in Sibley building....read the comments

Developers say they will put $200 million in Sibley building
Brian Sharp • Staff writer • February 6, 2010

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20100206/NEWS01/2060332/Deve...

Boston developers interested in buying and renovating the downtown Sibley Building and tower estimate a $200 million investment, including purchase, settling debts, design and construction.

Should the deal happen, the initial construction phase would focus on commercial/retail on the lower floors, with later phases to include mixed-income residential or student housing, said Gilbert Winn, managing principal with WinnCompanies.

His firm also is seeking an anchor tenant and exploring underground parking on-site.

The Sibley Building is one of the lynchpins to rejuvenating downtown. The massive structure on East Main Street encompasses almost the same square footage as all of the Midtown buildings combined and remains structurally sound, though more than a century old.

The historic building was a showcase for Sibley, Lindsay & Curr Co., a department store designed by J. Foster Warner and often called simply Sibley's. The initial structure went up on the northeast corner of East Main and North Clinton Avenue in 1904, with a grand opening in 1906. Later additions carried the building eastward to Franklin and North streets.

Today, the Sibley Building has amassed more than $19 million in debt, from loans and delinquent payments-in-lieu-of-taxes. It is assessed at less than $10 million and would require costly renovations to be converted to housing or other uses.

The structure is largely vacant except for Monroe Community College, which occupies about a quarter of the leasable space and is looking to move.

"If, in the next few months, progress can be made, everything can move relatively quickly on the initial phase of the redevelopment," Winn wrote in an e-mail response to Democrat and Chronicle questions this week.

"And if no progress can be made in this timeframe, we would be forced to part ways and seek other opportunities," he said.

Ongoing negotiations involve the city, county, state and private financing companies. A confidentiality agreement limits what the parties can say publicly, however, Winn said.
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WinnCompanies operates in 23 states. Through its WinnResidential subsidiary, the firm owns several properties in Monroe County, including the Pines of Perinton.

The firm has actively pursued the Sibley project for six months, and has put down a deposit, which has not been disclosed.

Contract terms have an "out" clause, allowing the firm to walk away if a deal is not reached by a certain, undisclosed point in time, said Tom Wilmot, chairman of Wilmorite Inc. The Rochester firm created RochWil LLC, which controls Sibley.

Among the uncertainties is MCC, which has hired a Boston consultant to help with site selection of a new campus. Winn hopes MCC considers staying in Sibley, and MCC spokeswoman Cynthia Cooper said no property is ruled out.

A single site will be recommended to the MCC board in April.

"Large-scale properties like Sibley do not get successfully redeveloped without the commitment of an anchor institutional tenant," Winn wrote, identifying that as a college, government office, hospital or corporation. "We are actively identifying and pursuing such a tenant."

Keeping MCC would require considerable investment, to overhaul the heating and air conditioning system, reconfigure rooms and lecture halls, and create a student union-type gathering place. All are shortcomings that have led MCC to consider a new downtown campus, Cooper said.

Then there is the more than $19 million in past-due loans and other debts that RochWil owes the city on Sibley.

Mayor Robert Duffy is not ruling out a settlement but said Friday, "to this point, that has not happened." A complicated financial arrangement made years ago limits the city's ability to collect. There also is private debt.

"We believe the Sibley Building is a national treasure and with the proper amount of love and attention (and, of course, financial resources and commitment) it can be resurrected and be viable as a national model for combining energy efficiency, modern interiors and historic landmark status," Winn wrote.

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WinnCompanies operates in 23 states. Through its WinnResidential subsidiary, the firm owns several properties in Monroe County, including the Pines of Perinton.

The firm has actively pursued the Sibley project for six months, and has put down a deposit, which has not been disclosed.

Contract terms have an "out" clause, allowing the firm to walk away if a deal is not reached by a certain, undisclosed point in time, said Tom Wilmot, chairman of Wilmorite Inc. The Rochester firm created RochWil LLC, which controls Sibley.

Among the uncertainties is MCC, which has hired a Boston consultant to help with site selection of a new campus. Winn hopes MCC considers staying in Sibley, and MCC spokeswoman Cynthia Cooper said no property is ruled out.

A single site will be recommended to the MCC board in April.

"Large-scale properties like Sibley do not get successfully redeveloped without the commitment of an anchor institutional tenant," Winn wrote, identifying that as a college, government office, hospital or corporation. "We are actively identifying and pursuing such a tenant."

Keeping MCC would require considerable investment, to overhaul the heating and air conditioning system, reconfigure rooms and lecture halls, and create a student union-type gathering place. All are shortcomings that have led MCC to consider a new downtown campus, Cooper said.

Then there is the more than $19 million in past-due loans and other debts that RochWil owes the city on Sibley.

Mayor Robert Duffy is not ruling out a settlement but said Friday, "to this point, that has not happened." A complicated financial arrangement made years ago limits the city's ability to collect. There also is private debt.

"We believe the Sibley Building is a national treasure and with the proper amount of love and attention (and, of course, financial resources and commitment) it can be resurrected and be viable as a national model for combining energy efficiency, modern interiors and historic landmark status," Winn wrote.

BDSHARP@DemocratandChronicle.com

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Developers say they will put $200 million in Sibley building

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sparky1 wrote:
Let's do more investigating of this "WINN" Company...Just as Bersen & the Medley center is an EGG for Irondequoit, Sibley bldg. is same for the City of ROchester...Why do these carpet baggers come into our town with a 'carrot' & 'bag' of money...IF IT'S TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE...then it isn't. This means that this Boston company doesn't have any loyality to Boston..there is no more development left to do in the city of Boston? No poor sections to reclaim? Just pick Rochester out of the thin air? This smells....
2/6/2010 1:23:16 PM
Let's do more investigating of this "WINN" Company...Just as Bersen & the Medley center is an EGG for Irondequoit, Sibley bldg. is same for the City of ROchester...Why do these carpet baggers come into our town with a 'carrot' & 'bag' of money...IF IT'S TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE...then it isn't. This means that this Boston company doesn't have any loyality to Boston..there is no more development left to do in the city of Boston? No poor sections to reclaim? Just pick Rochester out of the thin air? This smells.... sparky1
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rochester66 wrote:
"Ongoing negotiations involve the city, county, state and private financing companies"....another words....masssive public subsidies. And what do we get with such subsudies ....mixed income housing or student housing and supportive retail on the ground floor. The bottom line ....a maassive development full of loww income activity!!!! A HORRIFIC PLAN. This would be the last nail in the coffin for downtown development. I would rather see a vacant building until the economy improves than to see a historic iconic builidng becomes a heavily subsidized entity full of people with limited disposable inocme. This is NOT economic development.
2/6/2010 8:54:44 AM
"Ongoing negotiations involve the city, county, state and private financing companies"....another words....masssive public subsidies. And what do we get with such subsudies ....mixed income housing or student housing and supportive retail on the ground floor. The bottom line ....a maassive development full of loww income activity!!!! A HORRIFIC PLAN. This would be the last nail in the coffin for downtown development. I would rather see a vacant building until the economy improves than to see a historic iconic builidng becomes a heavily subsidized entity full of people with limited disposable inocme. This is NOT economic development. rochester66
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appoggiatura wrote:
... so a local attorney is arrested because he failed to pay tax on $350,000, but Wilmot can refuse to pay taxes in excess of $19 MILLION! That's nearly 60 times what the attorney failed to declare.

I'd say the Sibley Building belongs to us citizen/taxpayers ... along with a whole bunch of other Wilmot properties; let's get those Tax Liens working City Clerk!
2/6/2010 8:47:09 AM
... so a local attorney is arrested because he failed to pay tax on $350,000, but Wilmot can refuse to pay taxes in excess of $19 MILLION! That's nearly 60 times what the attorney failed to declare.I'd say the Sibley Building belongs to us citizen/taxpayers ... along with a whole bunch of other Wilmot properties; let's get those Tax Liens working City Clerk! appoggiatura
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wealthymoth wrote:
In the final analysis, the reason the downtown is in need of revitalization is a question of criminal justice, not architecture. During any time but New Years Eve, New York City's fabled Times Square is a pesthole of thuggery and vice, legally subsidized ny a bunch of do-gooders in "civil liberties" groups who started bleating half a century ago that law should focus away from so-called "victimless crimes". Their spiritual descendants today are to be found in those who rant about prison overcrowding and the cure for that of course is legalization of dope. To think that Rochester is immune to that just because it's smaller is delusional. You need to clean up the downtown area more with cops and courts than with bulldozers and "Oooh Pretty!" artist renderings that don't show where the human predators went. Where they should go is The Joint, for-bleepin'-ever. Then you can build your new buildings and renovate existing ones with landmark value.
2/6/2010 8:46:34 AM
In the final analysis, the reason the downtown is in need of revitalization is a question of criminal justice, not architecture. During any time but New Years Eve, New York City's fabled Times Square is a pesthole of thuggery and vice, legally subsidized ny a bunch of do-gooders in "civil liberties" groups who started bleating half a century ago that law should focus away from so-called "victimless crimes". Their spiritual descendants today are to be found in those who rant about prison overcrowding and the cure for that of course is legalization of dope. To think that Rochester is immune to that just because it's smaller is delusional. You need to clean up the downtown area more with cops and courts than with bulldozers and "Oooh Pretty!" artist renderings that don't show where the human predators went. Where they should go is The Joint, for-bleepin'-ever. Then you can build your new buildings and renovate existing ones with landmark value. wealthymoth
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jsprat99 wrote:
I too do not understand why the city has not foreclosed on the building? Perhaps the city should make an offer Mr. Wilmot cannot refuse: Make a deal with the developer or we WILL foreclose.

Undoubtedly politics is involved, and it almost seems as if the D&C is somehow involved. This statement from the article is very interesting:
"Today, the Sibley Building has amassed more than $19 million in debt, from loans and delinquent payments-in-lieu-of-taxes."
No, the building has not amassed any debt. Mr. Wilmot and company have amassed that debt. The article does not cast any negative light on the people or companies involved at all.
Why has the D&C, which made all sorts of statements recently about improving and in-depth reporting, not done any investigation in the situation with the Sibley building?
2/6/2010 8:19:23 AM
I too do not understand why the city has not foreclosed on the building? Perhaps the city should make an offer Mr. Wilmot cannot refuse: Make a deal with the developer or we WILL foreclose.Undoubtedly politics is involved, and it almost seems as if the D&C is somehow involved. This statement from the article is very interesting:"Today, the Sibley Building has amassed more than $19 million in debt, from loans and delinquent payments-in-lieu-of-taxes."No, the building has not amassed any debt. Mr. Wilmot and company have amassed that debt. The article does not cast any negative light on the people or companies involved at all.Why has the D&C, which made all sorts of statements recently about improving and in-depth reporting, not done any investigation in the situation with the Sibley building? jsprat99
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euleria wrote:
Boston?

MCC just hired (for a measly $75K) a consultant from Boston to help with site selection for a new downtown campus. Funny coincidence....
2/6/2010 8:18:50 AM
Boston? MCC just hired (for a measly $75K) a consultant from Boston to help with site selection for a new downtown campus. Funny coincidence.... euleria
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frank25 wrote:
In order for the center of Rochester to be a decent place again, it needs honest, hard-working people living downtown, stable businesses to employ those people, and decent retail to serve the needs of the people. Midtown went away because people moved to the suburbs and then malls were built in the suburbs to serve them. If a decent concentration of residents resurfaces downtown again, smaller scale retail will follow them. Once a substantial number is reached, restaurants, book stores, and other needed services will appear again. If this city wants a downtown anything close to what it was 50 years ago, it needs to remake that whole area around the liberty pole, and Midtown and the Sibley building are at that core. A constant presence of thugs along with a police trailer in the middle of the courtyard are not exactly inviting signs to outsiders, much less city residents who want to enjoy their downtown. Anything is better than the status quo.
2/6/2010 8:11:07 AM
In order for the center of Rochester to be a decent place again, it needs honest, hard-working people living downtown, stable businesses to employ those people, and decent retail to serve the needs of the people. Midtown went away because people moved to the suburbs and then malls were built in the suburbs to serve them. If a decent concentration of residents resurfaces downtown again, smaller scale retail will follow them. Once a substantial number is reached, restaurants, book stores, and other needed services will appear again. If this city wants a downtown anything close to what it was 50 years ago, it needs to remake that whole area around the liberty pole, and Midtown and the Sibley building are at that core. A constant presence of thugs along with a police trailer in the middle of the courtyard are not exactly inviting signs to outsiders, much less city residents who want to enjoy their downtown. Anything is better than the status quo. frank25
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JackRoch wrote:
I hope the comments here will transcend the usual bickering and cynicism - hey, this is a major public issue, guys. My two cents: It would have been better to foreclose on the Sibley's bldg. and redevelop it as public space (with at least a good chunk of MCC's downtown presence, some affordable housing, agency offices, a public school maybe, etc.), but that has been politically impossible (the Wilmots vis-a-vis City Hall and local Dems; nuff said). And the Midtown Plaza atrium could have become the nucleus of a student union, with other public spaces adjacent. But all that may be past, so let's hope the current plans bear fruit. My vote is for MCC to stay put - and then for City Hall to wake up to other possibilities, not only for the Sibley's bldg. but also for the NW corner of Main and Clinton, starting with preservation and rehabbing of the potentially valuable 19th century structures on that corner, which could then complement a restoration of the entire old Sibley's block.
2/6/2010 7:42:03 AM
I hope the comments here will transcend the usual bickering and cynicism - hey, this is a major public issue, guys. My two cents: It would have been better to foreclose on the Sibley's bldg. and redevelop it as public space (with at least a good chunk of MCC's downtown presence, some affordable housing, agency offices, a public school maybe, etc.), but that has been politically impossible (the Wilmots vis-a-vis City Hall and local Dems; nuff said). And the Midtown Plaza atrium could have become the nucleus of a student union, with other public spaces adjacent. But all that may be past, so let's hope the current plans bear fruit. My vote is for MCC to stay put - and then for City Hall to wake up to other possibilities, not only for the Sibley's bldg. but also for the NW corner of Main and Clinton, starting with preservation and rehabbing of the potentially valuable 19th century structures on that corner, which could then complement a restoration of the entire old Sibley's block. JackRoch
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BerigVintrange wrote:
And if RochWil LLC owes the city why didn't the city use that as leverage to move all the merchants from Midtown over to that (Sibley's) wonderful old building? I don't get it, I just don't get it, I've spoken a number of the displaced merchants of the former Midtown, yes, really, I eventually found them in their divers places, they agreed it would have bean the smart move, to move the congregate of merchants under one roof - in the historic Sibleys, including Peebles, would someone in the know please explain? it's this lameness that keeps me skeptical about city hall and it's ability to redevelop downtown, and, now this out of town prospective buyer of Sibleys sounds too similar to the course of efforts to save Midtown, yipes,

if it had bean done right today's Sibley building would be bustling with commerce and we city residents would still be shopping downtown,

well, if anyone has insight on why that didn't happen, I really appreciate their insight,

Berig

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Developers say they will put $200 million in Sibley building

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Herr_Lawn wrote:
When this is done, they can tackle that project to get pigs to fly.
2/6/2010 7:31:46 AM
When this is done, they can tackle that project to get pigs to fly. Herr_Lawn
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Needles wrote:
"Ongoing negotiations involve the city, county, state and private financing companies. A confidentiality agreement limits what the parties can say publicly"....someone would have to be awakening from a 20+ year coma to not understand what the politicians and the developers are negotiating. The private finance company (aka bank) says 'show me: a long term lease with a gov't entity (aka MCC) that will cover all of the loan payments; real estate and sales tax exemptions for the life of the loan from your friends at COMIDA which will allow the developer to make money; a state grant to take care of any little problems like asbestos removal; and, that the city will excuse the $19 million in PILOT money that the much revered Wilmot family has refused to pay which allows them to keep the money from the sale for all of the other sacrifices they've made'. This is textbook stuff in making a deal today - put the ultimate risk on the NYS tax payer.
2/6/2010 7:27:32 AM
"Ongoing negotiations involve the city, county, state and private financing companies. A confidentiality agreement limits what the parties can say publicly"....someone would have to be awakening from a 20+ year coma to not understand what the politicians and the developers are negotiating. The private finance company (aka bank) says 'show me: a long term lease with a gov't entity (aka MCC) that will cover all of the loan payments; real estate and sales tax exemptions for the life of the loan from your friends at COMIDA which will allow the developer to make money; a state grant to take care of any little problems like asbestos removal; and, that the city will excuse the $19 million in PILOT money that the much revered Wilmot family has refused to pay which allows them to keep the money from the sale for all of the other sacrifices they've made'. This is textbook stuff in making a deal today - put the ultimate risk on the NYS tax payer. Needles
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mibny2 wrote:
I didn't even need to read the comic section this morning. Thanks for the laugh.
2/6/2010 6:13:17 AM
I didn't even need to read the comic section this morning. Thanks for the laugh. mibny2
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